Ultimate X-Men

[IsaacMahomie]

I don't know how I managed to do this, but I've been able to grab some really good DC stuff. That comes from a combination of finding some great stuff at the library and doing a little research before I buy.
I'd be doing the same with Marvel if I had someone to actually tell me what to get and what to avoid. - What are the recent Hulk titles?

[Mongbert]

I'd have to check, but if we're still talking Loeb I think thats the start of the Rulk arc onwards? And I think that began in its own series just called 'Hulk', but its pretty complicated, a lot of spin offs and tie ins (A. LOT.) Presumably they're going to be/have been collected into a few books? I've seen books for Hulk #1-6 and -probably- 7-12, but half the point is the mystery of who Red Hulk is, which isnt revealed in either of those so Id imagine reading them as graphic novels might be a bit anti-climactic...

If we're talking just good Marvel books thats a whole other discussion.

[The REAL Brian]

I've lost interest in both companies. Ultimate Spiderman was the last book I was reading from Marvel, and Ultimatum caused that book to get flipped in that Peter and Mary Jane broke up AGAIN(Something Bendis actually swore in interviews wouldn't happen over and over again- yeah right B.). Brand New Day was Quesada pretending the fans hated Spiderman's marriage as much as he does(Most do not) and a middle finger to 20 years of Spiderman stories. And Civil War was a silly concept taken way too seriously(Applying real world laws to superheroes? Why not charge Santa Claus with 1 million counts of breaking and entering.) DC is just so obsessed with clinging to the Silver Age and proving that their books are so the hardcore adult literature now, two ideals that don't synch up and create titles like Countdown to Final Crisis. Not to mention the steaming pile of turds that was Final Crisis and Batman RIP collectively(Morrison claimed he was trying to write comics in a "new" way. If new means confusing and disjointed, then yes, it was certainly new.).

I'll gladly pick up books from these companies again if they'd just get over themselves and focus on being entertaining, not "ground breaking."

[BluTGI]

DC does need to reign it in a bit. I assume that World of Krypton & RIP/crisis was to get rid of Supes/Bats to make room for Lantern/Darkest night/sub characters to get some air/page time. But this needs to be halted.

World of krypton has been decent but I need a strong superman book akin to All Star. And while it will be fun watching batman lost in time making fun of genre books (conanan batman, piratebatman, etc) this won't be what I'm 100% looking for, I want something akin to No Mans Land era Batman.

[fantasticraig]

DC does need to reign it in a bit. I assume that World of Krypton & RIP/crisis was to get rid of Supes/Bats to make room for Lantern/Darkest night/sub characters to get some air/page time. But this needs to be halted.

World of krypton has been decent but I need a strong superman book akin to All Star. And while it will be fun watching batman lost in time making fun of genre books (conanan batman, piratebatman, etc) this won't be what I'm 100% looking for, I want something akin to No Mans Land era Batman.

All-star Superman was amazing, I dug the hell out of that and I'm not even a huge fan of the character.

The Superman and Batman being gone things seem like they are starting to wrap up. Which sucks in a way, Dick Grayson as Batman and Damien Wayne as Robin have made for some awesome comics. The "Batman and Robin" series especially has been good.

[Mongbert]

And Civil War was a silly concept taken way too seriously(Applying real world laws to superheroes?

Is 'All Superheroes need to be government registered' really a real world law? Don't think we have it in the UK.

I liked Civil War, picked up a lot of stuff from Watchmen.

[The REAL Brian]

You know what I meant. It was a "if super heroes were real, this would happen" story set in a world that already had an established canon.

Okay here's a summation of my Civil War criticism, the "real world" comparison set aside for now. When you get right down to it, registering people with superpowers would make sense, sure. People with powers can be dangerous. But Ironman/SHIELD went about it in the DUMBEST WAY POSSIBLE. They immediately drew a line in the sand and declared from on high "You're either with us or against us!" to basically justify half of the superheroes fighting the other half. No diplomacy or meetings required, apparently. And why did all of this need to happen? Because a fight with Nitro and the new Warriors got human citizens killed. And I could buy that... if people with powers was a new concept. But in the Marvel Universe, it's not. How many people does Magneto kill in one of his "humans suck" tantrums? How many people die every time Bruce Banner has a panic attack? Or all the people who died every time Namor got pissy and flooded New York. Citizens die in superhero comics all the time, and somehow the Nitro incident got construed as being a national tragedy in a universe where this sort of crap happened all the time.

But even all of that aside, the series was just an excuse to have superheroes fighting other superheroes. To me, that's idiotic. Yes we all wondered if Ironman could beat Captain America in a fight, but within the context of the canon Marvel Universe, there's not a good REASON for good guys to fight other good guys on such an enormous scale. They all had the same goal- to help people with their abilities, and they resorted to a very literal war over fast tracked legislation that contradicts the reality of superhero comics to begin with.

And to a lesser extent, it turned Iroman into an unreasonable strawman responsible for Captain America's death- the same year Ironman's movie came out. Greaaaaat marketing decision, Marvel.

Don't get me wrong, if you liked it, that's cool. There was just a lot about it that bothered me.

[opie301]

You know what I meant. It was a "if super heroes were real, this would happen" story set in a world that already had an established canon.

You realize that this storyline has been playing out in the X-Men comics since practically day one. Granted, that was always focused on registering mutants, but the premise is still the same, applied to a different group.

[IsaacMahomie]

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. It was an idea present largely in X-Men but coming full circle.
Loeb touched on this idea in Superman/Batman, but didn't get into it. (wisely).


As for your argument on the "people die all the time"... I agree that they could've had a more destructive setup. But really, So What? - I mean, realistically, times change. Look at the "200, 201" Southpark episodes, and how they can't show Muhammad. Back in like Season 4 they showed Muhammad as part of the "Super Best Friends". Nobody cared. But after 9/11, there's just way too much heat for any network to allow it. Something has drastically changed in only ten years.

[fantasticraig]

Going back to that Marvel vs DC discussion, I love DC, but something that they do that annoys me is that every single hero has a little group of snarky mini-versions of themselves running around with them. Superman has Superboy and Supergirl, Batman has the Robins and Batgirls, The Flash has all the other speedsters, etc.

They did this back in the day to make the heroes more relate-able to younger audiences, but nowadays it just seems kind of stupid that every hero has like 4 echoes of themself.

[IsaacMahomie]

I actually really like the "Bat Family" when its handled well.
It does get pretty ridiculous. Some of the variety is cool, though. At least Power Girl has big boobs.

[The REAL Brian]

Going back to that Marvel vs DC discussion, I love DC, but something that they do that annoys me is that every single hero has a little group of snarky mini-versions of themselves running around with them. Superman has Superboy and Supergirl, Batman has the Robins and Batgirls, The Flash has all the other speedsters, etc.

They did this back in the day to make the heroes more relate-able to younger audiences, but nowadays it just seems kind of stupid that every hero has like 4 echoes of themself.

The sad thing about Flash's entourage is over half the speedsters that run(Hah) in his circle aren't even related to him. They're just superspeed heroes DC acquired during their various take overs of other comic book companies. It'd be kind of like Batman constantly hanging out with Green Hornet, Zorro, and Catman(The non-DC one.) just because they all do basically the same thing. But what screws it up for Flash is they don't have a seperate team book for this, all the other speedsters just show up in his book all the time. In the 90's that got REALLLLLLY bad and sort of stunk up his title with all the hangers ons.

Getting away from Flash, think about how sad this is for Spiderman, who is kind of the opposite of Superman in this situation. There's Spidergirl, but she's in the future. There was BRIEFLY Kid Arachnid, but he was just a one-shot joke character. Otherwise, there's FOUR Spiderwoman gals and that Aria chick who is basically just Spiderwoman by another name. All his echoes are just spinoffs of his first echo. No bromance, no getting to be a father figure, just a bunch of ladies unrelated to him using his name and rarely ever working with him. What a shaft.

[IsaacMahomie]

Going off what you said, Peter Parker has a pretty rough time with the bro's. His Uncle dies, crazy relationship with Harry, that whole Norman Osbourne thing, his doctor friend turns into a lizard.... They seem to spend more time with female characters (because they're potential love interests? I don't know...)

[fantasticraig]

Spider-Man did have a the Scarlet Spider to hang around with for a bit in the 90s.

[The REAL Brian]

I forgot about "Ben." You know I actually liked him after the clone saga ended. It was kind of a shame to just kill him off.